Corruption in Honduras is a Way of Life

By Marco Cáceres
On October 1, 2011, I met Salvador Nasralla for the first time in Tegucigalpa and sat down with him for about an hour and half to talk about his candidacy for the Presidency of Honduras and his new Anti-Corruption Party (PAC), which he subsequently registered with the Supreme Electoral Tribunal (TSE). The next presidential election is scheduled for November 2013. We discussed a number of issues of critical importance to Honduras and his ideas for addressing them. I found Mr. Nasralla to be extremely forthright in his responses and unusually confident of his chances for winning, particularly given that he has never before run for political office and will not be representing either one of the two major parties. The following is the first part of the interview, which we have broken up into five parts. Transcripts of the other four parts will be published over the next few weeks.

I am aware that we have to eliminate the Honduran culture of corruption. Not only eliminate the corrupt people, but eliminate the system.

-Salvador Nasralla

Honduras Weekly: Many times, politicians -- individuals who aspire to a higher office... President, in your case -- they all are very good at identifying the problems of the country. If you read the newspapers, ever day you see the problems facing Honduras, whether it is Mr. Zelaya's overthrow, energy, any number of issues. They spend most of the time framing the problem, and maybe if we're lucky we hear their position on the problem. And if we're really lucky, we hear their proposed solutions to the problem. I want to take it even further. I want to know more than just the position and solutions but the process of implementing those solutions, given that you only have, if you were elected, four short years to make a difference in this country, and also that you're going to be working with a tremendous lack of resources.

You're always going to have a lack of money. You're always going to have corruption. You're always going to have people who want you to fail. You're always going to have the extreme left and the extreme right that are going to cause you nightmares. And you've got to do things that many people in the position of President don't really want to do. You're going to have to travel overseas. You're going to have to attend these little receptions, boring receptions... because you have to show up. And you only have maybe 12 hours in a day to work. I know that you've said that your first love is your work. And of all the candidates that I've observed and I've questioned, you're probably the hardest working... and that's a good thing, because you're going to have to work even harder if you get elected President of Honduras.

But you still have to pace yourself. You still have to get seven or eight hours of sleep. You have to have a relationship with your friends and your family. And so how are you going to pace yourself, given the immensity of this job that you wish to obtain, and still remain healthy, sane, positive, not get frustrated... be able to govern in a way in which you're trying to build a consensus in this country, not make anybody too angry. But really the central issue, how do you govern when you have all these things working against you?

Salvador Nasralla: Well, we are forming a party called Anti-Corruption, basically because we think this is the only way... breaking with the dual-party system that we have had in our country. Over the past 100 years, this has accentuated the corruption. The people who are getting involved, we are not politicians. But we are honest persons. Our intention is to save the country. We are aware that in the country, there are many honest and capable people, but they have not had a party with a person they can trust to be President. And addition to someone trustworthy, someone who is popular. In my case, I am fortunate to have worked very strongly, efficiently and successfully... and this has been recognized by humble people, the middle class, and people with money who respect my way of life. As such, those people support my efforts and my way being, and they trust me.

I do not have economic problems nor economic aspirations in getting into the government. Over the past 20 years, I have received proposals from both parties -- National and Liberal -- to be Mayor, Congressman, or Vice-President of the Republic. But during those 20 years, I said no, because each time they made offers to me they said that I could make a lot of money. One time, they offered me the position of Mayor of Tegucigalpa, and they told me that if I could steal without anyone finding out... Lps 170 million a year. I told them I don't want that. I live very well, and I don't need that. They said, well, but then you would have to allow those who work with you to do that, and you come out with your hands clean.

And so I've had experiences of this kind, which is why I never accepted... because really I don't need to be more popular, nor do I need more wealth to live. That's when I began to become aware of the growing outcry over the poverty, the insecurity, and the lack of jobs... and so the people would tell me to get in, get in, we will vote for you. So I accepted to take up this cause. First, we thought that we would have an independent candidacy, but after talking with people involved in politics, they told me no. They said that an independent can become President, but he would not be able to have influence over the Congress nor over the municipal governments. And it is the Congress in Honduras that decides most things. It was for that reason that it was necessary to create a party. And it is because of that that we are creating the Anti-Corruption Party.

Honduras Weekly: As you said, if you were to become President, you would have to work with Congress. You would have to work with the Judicial system. As you see right now in the United States, you have a President, Mr. Obama, who very popular when he was elected three years ago. And he has not produced what many people thought he would produce. Part of the problem was not that he was dishonest or that he was not intelligent... He's honest, he's intelligent, he has a family, he's not involved in scandals. But he has to work with Congress, and the Congress is Republican-controlled, mostly. And now, in the past election, a more extreme element of the Republican Party -- the Tea Party -- has come to power, and they have refused to work with Mr. Obama. So he has one more year left. He can't do anything. He can't solve problems. He can't pass legislation, because Congress will not work with him.

From a practical standpoint, how do you -- if you were to get elected -- pass legislation to help the country? How do you resolve critical issues? How do you bring the country together? How do you solve problems if people aren't willing to work with you in Congress? And maybe your party doesn't win enough seats in Congress to work with you. How do you do that when people say... we're not going to work with you because you won't play our game?

Salvador Nasralla: We think that we will achieve enough members of Congress. I am a person whom people believe. The people know that politicians lie. The only people who believe in politicians are those who receive money from politicians, to the extent that there has been an growth in the number of people who are unhappy because they have not received what they were offered. So there are many people right now who have to stay quiet, saying that they are going to vote for the National Party or the Liberal Party or for such and such Congressman even though they will not vote for them. Also, even though the Nationalist Party or the Liberal Party take them to the polls to vote -- it is a secret vote, and they will vote for the Anti-Corruption Party.

We have confidence that we will have an important representation in Congress, because in Honduras Congress is the one that elects the Supreme Court of Justice, and one of the greatest problems in Honduras is that justice is bought. Cases are decided by buying attorneys. So, by having in our favor, the possibility of electing those authorities during the next Congress, justice in Honduras will start to be applied. But for that we need to have a good number of Congressmen. I'm conscious that if we do not achieve the necessary number of Congressmen, I will have the same problems as Obama, but I am confident that we will obtain them.

I have a reputation for being an honest person who tells the truth and who anticipates what will happen next. I achieved that in my job in sports during 35 years. The people have confidence in me. I am a commentator who has not lied to the public. And I think this will be a fundamental factor to winning the next election. In addition to the amount of problems I can see, I can talk about taxes, foreign investment, corruption... I can talk about these issues. I am absolutely clear how we will deal with the problem of education and all the problems of health that we have, abuse... so I can tell you one by one.

Honduras Weekly: I'm going to get to those... I'm not going to belabor the issue of corruption, because I think we could talk about this forever and we'll never come to any great conclusions. So I'm interested in your views in all the other issues. But I didn't want to stop here without asking you... What is corruption? Because we hear... there are some things that are very obvious. Somebody steals, okay. But there's a lot of corruption that people can't think of whether or not it's corruption. I'll tell you a story...

When I was a child, my aunt took me to an office here in Honduras to get a driver's license. I was 15 years old, and I was dressed like a Norte Americano. And my aunt was dressed very nicely, with her jewelry and beautiful dress. And there was a line of very humble people waiting to get their license. The line was very long. And we walked in, and my aunt looked at the line and immediately she started looking for somebody with authority. And she grabbed somebody, and she said... my nephew needs a license, can you help us? And he looked at her. He said... come into my office. And in 10 minutes, I had my license. Is that corruption?

Salvador Nasralla: Yes, I know. Corruption in Honduras is a way of life. I am aware that we have to eliminate the Honduran culture of corruption. Not only eliminate the corrupt people, but eliminate the system. We have to design a system within each public office so that this will not continue to develop anymore... to eliminate what happened to you with your driver's license, to eliminate what happens to a businessman who want to set up his business in Honduras and who has to pay in every office for a permit... and he keeps paying and paying and paying... (11/18/11)

Note: The author is the editor and cofounder of Honduras Weekly. He is also the cofounder of projecthonduras.com, an international network of volunteers involved in humanitarian development projects aimed at empowering the people of Honduras. He directs the annual Conference on Honduras in the town of Copán Ruinas in northwestern Honduras. He was born in Tegucigalpa.